Trade Adverts

Hi we are the people that host this wonderful site and want to offer our services to members of clubs and groups that would like their own presence on the world wide web. We have special unlimited space and transfer for only £40 £33 a year for clubs…
Read more...
Want to put your advert on the site like this one. We get over 25,000 visitors a month to these pages and your name could be right here at the top of the listings. If you haven't got a web site that's no problem, we can just put the details…
Read more...
Always wanted, Myford ML7 & Super 7 or ML10 Lathes. The good, the bad or the ugly. Read more for contact details. ...
Read more...
...
STEAMPLATES produce high quality polished and enamelled name plates  etc. in Brass and Aluminium from 1" x 1/2" up to 96" x 48".  Reproduction steam related name and other plates can be made to FULL  SCALE.

We also make other…
Read more...
Call Steve Cox on 07836 736496 or email for quote. Machinery removal and transportation service based in West Yorkshire, UK coverage. Crane can lift 1100kg at 1.2 metres and 420kg at 4.0 metres. Vehicle can carry 1100kg on 10 foot x 7 foot flatbed.
Now using flatbed Transit with rear mounted…
Read more...
I offer a casting service specialising in small batches and one offs, producing good quality castings in variours alloys using the lost wax process, ideal for the model engineer and restorer. Any enquiries and more details can be found on my web site. www.abbeycasting.c......
Read more...

New forum, please make sure you select which category you need to post in. Any posts just dropped in the general category will be moved or deleted, depending on what mood the moderators are in.
Guests can reply to posts in the information forum, so you don't need to log in to answer someone.


Now 1 member online
and 93 guests online
Powered by JoomlaMe

Chipmaster

Chipmaster

Hi.
After much procrastination I have finally reassembled my 1971 Continental Colchester Chipmaster.
I had to find a spare part to fix the variator and while I did that, I stupidly also disassembled the headstock.
But now it's up and running and I have some questions.

1. Has anyone got a lubrication chart ? What to put where and how? (the oiling points for the saddle were painted over !!!)
2. The Matrix clutch. In the manual it's mentioned it has to be greased. Where and with what?
3. The variator handle can slip some and change the RPM a few 100's, if I let it go quickly. Normal or should I tighten something? Nothing in the drive train is slipping; it has power.

I have gotten to know the lathe well and I wrote a small text of it at www.lillebo.dk/wp.
TIA.
Cheers
Erik

useravatar
Erik Hansen
rcflier
Charge Hand
ranks
Offline
69 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

The most important thing is the correct oil for the variator, I did at one time have a manual for one. If you need a copy let me know.

Spiky1      ( Dave )

useravatar
Dave Spicer
spiky1
Apprentice
ranks
Offline
2 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

The correct oil for the Variator is Morlina 10 and it is available from Allspeeds. It is not cheap. The handle on my variator always stays where I leave it but I don't remember any adjustment on the worm for tensioning it. One thing that is important is to remove the end float by adjusting the 2 rings one at each end of the Variator.
Martyn

useravatar
Martyn Harrold
Martyn
Apprentice
ranks
Offline
9 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hi guys - thank you for your replies.

Yes, I know the variator well - it needs two things: 1. Shell Morlina S2 BL10 and 2. The correct pretension, adjusted in the two threaded end caps, which hold the two bearing blocks.
I feel bad about all the scrapped variators, that could've been saved with a little knowledge. And I have written Tony (lathes.co.uk) about it - given him something he could include, but he hasn't.
He still wants people to kick out their variators and install VFD's, although they can't match the speed range of the variator. I have some writings from Allspeeds about how to take care and adjust
the variator - if anyone wants them.

I also have two PDF manuals of different vintage, but at least the newer one has hardly included any instructions about lubrication.
I would so like the variator info somewhere accessible to save the lives of remaining variators.

I use Morlina S2 BL10 in the headstock and an Agip gearbox oil in the feeds gearbox. I have some Shell Tonna68 way oil for saddle and bedways.

My problem lies with the Matrix clutch. An american wrote me his has a grease nipple in "center". I have no idea what he means. Mine has the actuating rod in the center....

Cheers
Erik

useravatar
Erik Hansen
rcflier
Charge Hand
ranks
Offline
69 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

If anyone wants to repair a Variator, and they are not difficult to do, I have 2 matched sets of 3 steel balls that I bought as spares from a retired Colchester Chipmaster service engineer. I bought them because of the scare stories about have very expensive they were and the chap who serviced my machine wanted to get rid of them. I don't suppose I'll ever use them.
Martyn

useravatar
Martyn Harrold
Martyn
Apprentice
ranks
Offline
9 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

My variator is of the 6 ball type. I bought my Chippie in UK on the condition, that the variator was fine and the condition of the lathe good.

When I received it here in Denmark, the variator made a rythmic "bonk" noise. I was mad as h*ll about it, as I could see, a VFD wasn't enough
to retain the RPM range. Bewitched by Tony Griffiths that a VFD was so great, I had bought one (well, two) beforehand.  I then came into contact
with a guy in Denmark who was looking for a VFD - and he had an old Chippie. As it turned out, he had bonked his variator through lack of knowledge.
It had cracked one of the ramps, where the rollers rise up and give tension. There had been too much slack - it was otherwise in great condition.

Well, he didn't buy my VFD, but I could have the old variator for the taking. My variator had a crack in one drive cone, and one of the old 3-ball variator
drivecones were a perfect match. So I could now get my variator running again. I had also bought new bearings, although it probably wasn't needed.
The tolerances were that close, that I needed to reuse one of the old paper gaskets to be able to change speed(I used some Loctite liquid gasket) .

I have now given the rest of the old variator to a german - a german tourist is going to bring it back to him. And he may give me some spare variator oil.

My current challenge is lubricating the Matrix clutch. How, where and with what.

Cheers
Erik

PS and OT:  I would really like a set of changewheels, so my metric Chippie can cut Imperial threads....

useravatar
Erik Hansen
rcflier
Charge Hand
ranks
Offline
69 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hello Erik,
I have a Matrix clutch arrangement in each of two machines and they both run in "normal" ISO32 hydraulic oil. In view of the diverse origins, but identical lubrication of these two, I had expected you would be safe to use the same oil in your Matrix clutch. However, I see there is a complete Chipmaster manual available on Scribd which shows the clutch is the same general construction as mine, but the lubrication is quoted as "grease periodically".:
scribd.com/doc/132286866/Chipmaster-Manual-1-of-6
shows the lubrication
scribd.com/document/132286915/Chipmaster-Manual-3-of-6
shows the clutch as an exploded parts diagram

Separately, I am greatly heartened to hear someone else speaking sensibly about the variator and more generally about the not entirely perfect result from a VFD. In the modern computerised era, there seems to be a headlong dash to the blind assumption that anything electronic and preferably programmable must be the answer.
"Oooh, it's digital, that's really 'cool'! ".
Oh dear. It is a very misguided presumption. I'm just waiting for some clown to champion having his VFD controlled by some App his cursed iPhone.....

I am not "anti-" VFD's (I have four in regular use), but they are not a universal solution and do not "just replace" various mechanical systems, not in isolation at least.

- Richard -

useravatar
Richard Shute
SharkfacePilot
Who dies with most toys, wins
Designer
ranks
Offline
502 Posts
Male 
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hi Richard.

Well, I think VFD's are very sexy. A display with Hz or RPM output, soft start and braking - nice.
But I tried it when I had my Chippie drive train in pieces, and it tripped my relay almost every time.

I discovered, you have to have a special, very expensive, industrial relay, tripping at 300 mA instead of at 30 mA. Because they are 3-phase both in and out. I read the 1- to 3-phase do not have that problem.

So I made a separate ground for it (I read that would eat all those strange currents), but never tried it, as my variator now runs well.

I am tempted to use it with my Deckel FP2 mill to stop the "clack" startup noise from straight gears, but I'm afraid it will trip my relay.
But I may yet try it with the local ground earth one day, if I should feel adventurous. Then I can make a shelf with DRO, start/stop buttons, display and a pot. More industrial.

My Chipmaster clutch is hanging out free in the air (not in bath) just inside the drive train/change gear cover. So I wonder what has to be greased....

Cheers
Erik

useravatar
Erik Hansen
rcflier
Charge Hand
ranks
Offline
69 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hi Erik,
you will see I have edited my post after some more research.

I had a Vacon VFD which tripped the RCD every time because of the way the internal filters etc worked. The answer is to remove the earth from the VFD and have it isolated in a closed box, the machine must still be earthed to be safe. It was a PITA which was  a shame as in every other way it was a very good VFD - I ended up changing it to a Siemens which is also 'good', but has the most perverse programming of any VFD I have found, and that's quite remarkable.
You would think by now that you'd be able to "just" plug in a laptop and use some probably graphics interface to set the parameters. But on my Siemens at least, you set individual data "bits" on or off to select almost random functions (soft start, phase loss detection etc), it's 4-bit logic so the values are Octal, but the real kicker is that you convert the Octal to decimal and enter that value via the keypad. What a masterful gem of inconvenience.

In general, however, VFD's are not a major bother, usually a TypeC trip or MCBO is best as the inrush current while initially charging the smoothing Cap's can be significant enough to knock out a normal Type A or B and may on occasion be seen by the RCD as an apparent earth leak depending on the internals - some do, some don't. Supplying via a 1:1 isolation transformer is a sledge-hammer way to deal with it 'correctly'. But then of course you may need a soft start for the transformer.......

- Richard -

useravatar
Richard Shute
SharkfacePilot
Who dies with most toys, wins
Designer
ranks
Offline
502 Posts
Male 
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hi Erik,
You were asking what needed to be greased on the Chipmaster Matrix Clutch.

There are three rollers (with reduced ends - Part number 1276 Bearing Assembly from the Chipmaster Manual Parts lists)...that ride up and down on ramps on the Track Ring (Part Number 1273 Track Ring)...
...all that have to be greased are these three rollers and where they ride up and down on the Track Ring ramps. Just a smearing of grease is required...that's all. Any more than just a smear...will be flung out by centrifugal force once the clutch is engaged and rotating. Often seen as throw-off on the inside of the Fibreglass End Cover.

That's all there is...to greasing the clutch on the Chipmaster;-)))

Best regards,
neebs
PS I would be very interested in what you said you had written up about adjustments for the variator. I would certainly like read it if possible?

useravatar
Adrian Nicolson
neebs
Foreman
ranks
Offline
241 Posts
Male 
Administrator has disabled public posting

Re: Chipmaster

Hi Neebs.
Yes, the inside of the end cover is quite greasy.

I have some info on the variator:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ei0ty33y0ry11 … 1.gif?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cs61qihi9zkpb … 2.gif?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qllh69wp1odlt … 3.gif?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7iyfas6jcgc9p … x.gif?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/li795jx0eijui … t.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/61mdzzxyvyhuu … 2.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/one9g29rbpvye … a.gif?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9iq5hik6s5u3v … 9.pdf?dl=0
That's about what I have on the variator.

I once wrote something to a guy in Norway: http://modelengineeringnorge.weebly.com/
He put it under the heading: Dream machine. It's just about how I bought them and such.

I can find a fine thread about a 3-ball variator on practicalmachinist.com and I have pictures and description of my own also.
But there isn't much to write about the variator - it's so simple.

Cheers
Erik

And oops - one more:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1bwi7czrj4vi … e.pdf?dl=0

One more oops:  Here is a nice brochure:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/8posouy0u3o9r … e.pdf?dl=0

useravatar
Erik Hansen
rcflier
Charge Hand
ranks
Offline
69 Posts
Administrator has disabled public posting

Board Info

Board Stats:
 
Total Topics:
3981
Total Polls:
2
Total Posts:
10124
Total Posts Today:
1
User Info:
 
Total Users:
1325
Newest User:
Keith Jenkins
Members Online:
1
Guests Online:
475

online: 
Victor Scott

Forum Legend:

 Topic
 New
 Locked
 Sticky
 Active
 New/Active
 New/Locked
 New Sticky
 Locked/Active
 Active/Sticky
 Sticky/Locked
 Sticky/Active/Locked

Disclaimer

Any adverts on the homeworkshop.org.uk site are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of the administrators.

By using the site, individual posters agree not to post any defamatory or libellous posts and to accept full responsibility for the items they post.

We do not warrant that the servers that make this website available will be error, virus or bug free and you accept that it is your responsibility to make adequate provision for protection against such threats.

In no event will homeworkshop.org.uk be liable for any incidental, indirect, consequential or special damages of any kind, or any damages whatsoever, including, without limitation, those resulting from loss of profit, loss of contracts, goodwill, data, information, income, anticipated savings or business relationships, whether or not advised of the possibility of such damage, arising out of or in connection with the use of this website or any linked websites.

We do not sell, hire, share or give out your email address.

The software that runs this site (Joomla!) may transfer a temporary cookie so it can keep track of what it’s doing. As it’s temporary it maybe deleted when you leave here.

So that we can measure the popularity of posts, where people come from and other general statistics, we use Google Analytic’s. It may store cookies to track new  and repeat visitors. It does not have any detail on who you are.

Advertising links can use cookies to track from which site you came from. Some of those will be for affiliate links where cookies are used in tracking and payment systems.

All copyrights, trademarks and intellectual property rights remain with the owners unless owned or licensed by the homeworkshop.org.uk site.

This disclaimer notice shall be interpreted and governed by English law, and any disputes in relation to it are subject to the jurisdiction of the courts in England and Wales. 

 

Donate

Want to help us fund the site and time spent by the people behind it then use the button below.

We are not a registered charity so you can't claim it back but it helps pay for the costs of improving the features.

You can also help by looking at the advert on the side menus as we get paid for these BUT please only look at adverts you are interested in, you never know you might find something you never knew existed.